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Thomas Carter, III[1, 2]

Male c 1728 -


Personal Information    |    Sources    |    All    |    PDF

  • Suffix  III 
    Born  c 1728  Goochland, Albemarle Co., Virginia Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Gender  Male 
    Person ID  I67751  Devin Timber
    Last Modified  3 Oct 2013 

    Father  Thomas Carter, Jr.,   b. c 1697, Henrico County, Virginia Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Mother  Suzannah Baynes,   b. 11 Feb 1726, Henrico County, Virginia Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Family ID  F22662  Group Sheet

    Family  Mary Kilpatrick 
    Children 
    >1. Thomas Carter, IV,   b. 19 Jun 1753, Goochland, Albemarle Co., Virginia Find all individuals with events at this location
     2. Jessee Carter,   b. 4 Mar 1756, Goochland, Albemarle Co., Virginia Find all individuals with events at this location
     3. Abraham Carter,   b. 9 Apr 1758, Prob Goochland, Virginia Find all individuals with events at this location
     4. Charles T. Carter,   b. c 1759, Prob Goochland, Virginia Find all individuals with events at this location
     5. Judith Carter,   b. c 1752, Prob Goochland, Virginia Find all individuals with events at this location
    Last Modified  21 Jan 2012 
    Family ID  F22663  Group Sheet

  • Sources 
    1. [S67727] Mary Frances Reynolds Eggleston.
      http://www.danielsfamilytree.com
      The Thomas of Goochland Clan

      ID - Name(s): 33427 Thomas of Goochland Carter III
      Nick-Title: -
      Born ca. 1728-- Goochland Co VA
      Died:
      Burial:
      Occupation:
      Religion:
      Bio Mother: 33426 1. Susannah Baynes? 2. Mary Carrol?
      Bio Father: 32806 Thomas of Goochland Carter Jr. dna
      Legal Mother:
      Legal Father:

      ID Sibling(s):
      34757 Rebecca MacGuire ne(e) Carter
      33430 Susanna Jackson ne(e) Carter
      33431 Mary Dawson Carter
      33432 Judith m. Charles Carter
      33428 John of Ballows Carter
      33433 Patriot Josiah Carter dna
      33429 Patriot Baynes Carter

      ID Spouse(s) - Marriage Dates: ID Children: (Those in italics are stepchildren)
      34754 Mary (definite) Kilpatrick (1751-- Goochland Co VA) 34759 Judith Carter
      34755 Thomas of Goochland Carter IV?
      34758 Jesse Carter
      34760 Abraham Carter
      34762 Alexander NOT of Chester Carter


      A simple statement up front: with the revised and accurate dating of all in Goochland, it is plainly Thomas III who married Mary Kilpatrick in 1751, and neither his father nor grandfather, as early writers had grossly and erroneously presumed. Separately, the 1751 marriage with the very specific dates for Thomas, Jesse and Abraham found in the Douglas Register prove that Alexander was an infant when the will of Mary's brother John Kilpatrick was written 18 March 1760 in Craven County NC. Therefore ... the infant Alexander can NOT be the Alexander who died in Chester County 1824: Holly Carter Dunlap recites the deeds beginning in Mecklenburg County VA in 1771 to prove the connection to Chester - impossible for an Alexander Carter born 1760.

      Moving forward, we must use Senior, Junior, Third and Fourth in all future discussions:

      Even if the details were hidden away in scattered fragments, there were clearly four different Thomas Carters of Goochland! We know more about Thomas IV than we do about Thomas III - yet, there is a Goochland County deed of 1757 citing Thomas Carter "the Elder" as a witness on Turkey Cock Creek - who made his mark - which strongly suggests our Thomas Jr. as the elder and Thomas III as the lesser at that point in time. As we know from prior experience, however, this may or may not be father and son - simply the county clerk clarifying two people of the same name . However, Dan Wallace appears to have made the connection for us in his comprehensive study of the Goochland deeds, wherein he proved Robert of Cartersville. ***

      Perhaps the most important point to this outline of four different Thomas Carters is a Thomas Carter Jr. "present" at the processioning of two lines of a Thomas (Sr.) in 1748, one of which cites John "Mackwire" - where MacGuire is later proven to be the father-in-law of our Rebecca, daughter of our Thomas Junior. This proves this "Junior" (our Third) was born before 1727 - he was a land owner himself in 1748 - never mind the 1757 deed above! Most tellingly, the wills of 1726 and 1763 both name a son Thomas, while the family bible of John W. Carter, deceased of Upshur County WV, allegedly cites his grandparents as Thomas and Mary Kilpatrick Carter. (There is no reliable information known to date on the mother of John - all references to the early DAR material are quite dubious, even though later material on John himself is quite well proven).

      The Processioning Laws

      The 1662 act required that landowners ?goe in procession? once every four years
      to walk and renew the property lines between themselves and their neighbors. The
      county courts were charged with ordering the parish vestries to define the precincts and
      procession them.[2] Once the precincts were defined, the landowners within each
      precinct would walk the lines, renew markings, and resolve as many disputes as
      possible among themselves. Any unresolved controversy would be adjudicated by two
      surveyors who would determine the lines in the presence of the landowners, their expense
      borne by the person raising the controversy. A substantial fine was established for any
      landowner who failed to participate. The processioning was to take place every four
      years between Easter and Whitsunday.[3]

      Modifications of 1705 - please note this is about the record-keeping:

      A permanent written record was to be kept within the parishes. The vestries were to
      appoint ?at least two intelligent honest freeholders of every precinct, to see such
      processioning performed? and to make a written report of the processioning, including
      who was present, what lands were viewed, and what disputes arose. These reports
      were to be recorded ?in particular books to be kept for that purpose? within each
      vestry. Certain provisions were also made to assure the accuracy of these records.

      The processioners assigned to each precinct were almost always
      men who owned land within that precinct.

      They were always freeholders, and typically were vestrymen, justices,
      and other men of standing.


      With the exception of the current work from Dan - or the disclaimers of Holly Carter Dunlop - forget everything you see on RootsWeb or on the Carter GenForum regards Goochland. Please take note how with the revised - but by no means proven - dating of all of the Goochland Clan, the marriage of Mary Kilpatrick in 1751 has to be to Thomas III; this is apart from the excellent work from Dan on Thomas Jr. and Mary Carrol which reinforces the point. In all of this discussion, please remember that Dan has previously proven beyond all doubt that Thomas Jr. and his brother Robert (of Cartersville) had to have been born before 1700.

      And don't forget Gen. Carter threw all the dates off with his erroneous connection to Giles of Cold Aston!
      We now have absolute proof from Cirencester that our Giles of Henrico was born in 1635 to Theodore.

      All said and done, the following is not a proven descendency chart. Until Thomas IV (when it's too late to be of much use) - or the minor exception of Jesse and Abraham of Thomas III - there are neither church records nor family bibles for any of the births. We simply have the Douglas Register in Goochland for the ONE marriage, the two wills for Junior and Senior and the belated family bible of John W. Carter. (Whether or not these are fathers and sons, we must use Senior, Junior, Third and Fourth in all discussions). Although there is much improvement from prior attempts, these are still Best Guesses:

      Current Outline of the Four Thomas Carters of Goochland:

      Thomas Carter Sr. (ca.1672-1738) m.1. ? m.2. Penele Unknown m.3. Susannah 1726ff (NOT Baynes)
      - where Carrol and Kilpatrick are now clearly linked to son and probable grandson
      - and where Dan just about proves the Banes could not have been linked to Senior
      - and where Dan later makes a case for Susannah Huddelsey (per deed of 1735 to son Edward)
      - and where the will written 1726 [sic] names wife Penele while we all suspect an earlier third marriage
      Thomas Carter Jr. (ca.1697-1763) probably m.1. Susannah Baynes probably m.2. Mary Carrol
      - despite lack of other evidence, can not dismiss a Jr. in 1748, a daughter Susannah, a son Baynes
      - per current work of Dan, probably a second marriage to Mary Carrol per the will of 1763
      - Turkey Cock Creek deeds make a strong connection between Junior and Senior
      - separate deed of 1757 citing Thomas Carter "the Elder" as a witness on Turkey Cock Creek
      Thomas Carter III (ca.1726- ? ) m. Mary Kilpatrick 1751 Goochland per Douglas Register
      - the will of Jr. in 1763 proves this son Thomas was not born 1753 (he would not be mentioned first)
      - the same will repeatedly names "youngest sons John, Josiah and Baynes" but not Jesse (of Thomas III)
      - St. James Vestry Book 1748 - a Thos. Jr. present at processioning of lines of Thomas (including MacGuire)
      - Virginia Births: Mar 4 1756 Jesse Carter of Thomas Carter and Mary Kilpatrick - Goochland
      - Damron family lore has Thomas and Mary heading west - direct to Buckingham/Nelson, not Lancaster
      Thomas Carter IV (1753-1825?) m. Elizabeth Griggs Doggett 1771 Lancaster Co VA ???
      - where the bible of his son John stipulates the parents of Thomas IV as Thomas & Mary Kilpatrick
      - with DAR birth on 19 June 1753 but where? (1753 with the 1751 marriage is suggestive, not proof)
      - BUT - why a removal back up to the isolated Lancaster County? Shipping?
      - there has to be a Thomas IV because of the bible, but is there another marriage??
      - what does the bible say about the mother of John W. Carter???
      - but then, who was the Thomas m. Doggett - there is no left-over Thomas of Lancaster????
      (possibly the grandson of Henry and Letticia Pullen Carter, grandson of Capt. Thomas Sr.)

      Please note how the revised dating accomodates all known data - especially the marriages! Beginning with Gen. Carter a hundred years ago, everyone - professional and amateur alike - has been skipping a generation! Don't forget he completely threw us off the track in the first place with the erroneous connection to Giles of Cold Aston! In brief, a Thomas "Jr." who is a landowner in 1748 HAS to be to our Thomas III while the marriage to Kilpatrick in 1751 HAS to be to the same Thomas III. Let's not forget that the wills of 1726 and 1763 both name a son Thomas, and that 1763 did not name a son Jesse.

      Without something of a complete timeline, previous attempts at separating the Thomas Carters of Goochland solely on the 1751 marriage in the Douglas Register were entirely too simplistic!

      But then, we're missing a daughter Rebecca from the following, but Turkey Cock Creek sure sounds like Thomas Junior, where a previously unknown daughter of Junior is entirely possible. Assume a date of marriage of 1745 in the following and note how Dan makes the connection below through his analysis of the Goochland deeds. ***

      "John MacQuire(McGuire) born most likely in Ireland about 1720 married Rebecca Carter [ca. 1745] a daughter of Thomas Carter, the Elder. Deed Book 2, page 414 shows that a conveyance of 100 acres of land which was a part of a 400 acre plat. The deed was made the 27th day of June, 1757 and recites that Thomas Carter, the Elder is a resident of Goochland County, Virginia. The deed describes the land as situated in Cumberland County on the "branches of Turkey Cock Creek". Thomas Carter acknowledged his conveyance with his "mark" before Thompson Swann, Clerk".

      Viz. a viz.

      Will of Thomas Carter, proved April 19, 1763; legatees: son Thomas 150 acres in Cumberland on Turkey Cock Creek etc. Son John, 120 acres in Goochland etc. Son Josiah land in Goochland etc. Son Baynes Carter 222 acres in Goochland where testator lived. John, Josiah Baynes were his youngest sons. Wife Mary, daughter Susanna Carter 150 acres in Cumberland on Turkey Cock Creek, etc. [Missing Rebecca - was she not mentioned because she was already married while Susanna was not? Remember, Dan has already made the connection for us by his comprehensive study of the Goochland deeds].

      And where ?

      "William the son of Roger Carrell left a will, recorded as William Carrol, in Goochland [DB 2/31] dated 4 Sep 1734, proved 19 Nov 1734. This will was witnessed by William Sanders, Thomas (+) Carter, George Williamson and Julius Sanders. The fact that Thomas Carter signed with a mark rather than a signature implies that this is Thomas Carter, Junior (a brother-in-law?) rather than Thomas Carter of Goochland who signed documents with a full signature". Dan Wallace below.

      And where Dan previously made the connection *** ?

      10. On 8 Sep 1736 at the cost of 40 shillings a patent [VPB 17/165] was issued to Thomas Carter for 400a in Goochland County, lying on both sides of Turkey Cock Creek south of the James River. Nothing in the patent tells us which Thomas Carter was the recepient.{We will see later that this was in fact Thomas Carter, Junior as in (5.) above. The patent does not use Junior thus ether Thomas Carter was dead by this date and his will was not recorded for two years , or, the patent was just wrong. [Patents are not recorded and have no need to differentiate]. There are no transactions involving this land until 1757 when Thomas Carter deeded 100a of the tract to John McGuire, husband of his daughter Rebecca (21.) The terms of the patent were such that the land must be seated within 3 years of the date of the patent or risk the forfeiture of the patent by the grantor. The question is who moved there to seat the property}? Email of Dan Wallace

      Here is What We Know

      SENIOR: On 2 Nov 1726 Thomas Carter signed a will that recited:
      To eldest son Robert, 1 yearling cow - to 2nd son Thomas, 1 yearling cow - to son John, 1 shilling - to son Edward, 1 shilling, to daughter ElIzabeth Carter, 1 shlillng - to son Joseph, all land I live on, 100 acres, but if he dies without Issue, then to my son Edward. Personal estate to wife Penele, and she to be executrix.

      Why two separate sources for this same transaction? Always include all data!
      Bondsmen, consentors and parents for the marriages - witnesses and boundaries for the deeds!
      Don't forget that witnesses to deeds were next-door neighbors - they were "approving" the sale!
      Deed June 10, 1735 from Thomas Carter and Susannah his wife. *
      Deed from Thomas Carter to his son Edward, June 10, 1735. p. 82

      * Susannah is NOT mentioned - but another son (grandson?) is mentioned! "17 June 1735 Thomas Carter to son Edward ? if Edward dies [before me] then land to revert to son Stephen" Signed (with full signature, per Dan's comments). Everyone - please be both accurate and complete in your postings of data!

      JUNIOR: "Thomas Carter Jr.'s Last Will and Testament was written 14 February 1760 and was recorded in Goochland County on 19 April 1763. If his sons were named in chronological order, his oldest would have been Thomas [III], then John, then Josiah, then Baynes. In his Will, Thomas Carter refers to his 'Youngest sons, that is to say John Carter, Josiar [sic] Carter, and Baynes Carter'. He also refers to his wife Mary Carter". [AND to "my three younger daughters Mary Dawson, Judith Carter and Susanna Carter ?" - just about stating there is an older daughter]

      " ? until 1757 when Thomas Carter deeded 100a of the tract to John McGuire, husband of his daughter Rebecca". [Strong circumstantial evidence per last comment, but no real proof].

      THIRD: Virginia Births: Mar 4 1756 Jesse Carter of Thomas Carter and Mary Kilpatrick - Goochland

      "In The Douglas Register the two sons of Thomas and Mary are listed as Jesse born 4 Mar 1756, baptized 18 Feb 1759, page 54 and Abraham born 9 Apr1758, baptized 3 Feb 1759, page 54". [It would be Common Sense to expect a child before the 1756 date for Jesse, but there is no entry for Thomas of 1753. Unlike other Registries, the Rev. Douglas appears to have been quite meticulous and thorough, so this leaves the door wide open on Thomas IV].

      "Thomas Carter in Goochland married Mary Kilpatrick dau of Alexander Kilpatrick & Easley woman(you can find two sons birth date in Douglas Reg in Goochland. Mary's bro died in (I can remember right now) S.C. I think and in his WILL he Names Thomas Carter in Goochland & son Alexander Carter (Mary's Husband & son)". [John Kilpatrick d.s.p. bef. 1730 Goochland - 1760 Dobbs Co NC - in this context, presume Alexander is the youngest].

      St. James Northam Vestry Book 12 Apr 1748 - Lines Processioned:
      pg. 21 " ? Lines of Mr. John Smith, Thomas Baldwin, Thomas Carter, Phillip Webber and Mrs. Jane Randolph with Charles Fleming, Guy Smith and Thomas Carter Jr. present"
      pg. 23 " ? Line between Walter Clopton and Col. John Bolling with (line of) Charles Fleming, Thomas Edwards, Isaac Manley, John Mackwire [sic], Charles Edwards, Thomas Carter Jr., (no presence noted)" There is a fine distinction between these two entries: Thomas III now (at the age of 20 or 21) has his own line to MacGuire in 1748 - adjacent to his father per Pg. 21 and later adjacent to his sister Rebecca Carter MacGuire in 1757!

      Point is, Thomas "Jr." (our Third) would not be Processioning if he were not a landowner himself!

      FOURTH: "Thos Carter, 1753-1825, m 1771 Lanc. Co Posted by: Virginia Date: April 19, 2000:

      "Thomas Carter, born 1753 in Lancaster Co., Va, married 1771 Lanc. Co, and died 1825 in Hanover Co., Va. * Wife , Elizabeth Griggs, widow of George Doggett, listed on DAR Patriot Index as wife of Thos Carter, Pvt Va. And is listed on the Lancaster Co., Va Marriage Rolls married to Thos Carter 1771. They had at least one son, John born 1778, and possibly a son Edward born prior to 1776. A daughter is indicated by family records as born in 1787. A wife of Thomas died in 1799 when he was in late 40's, so possibly he married again. He was in Buckingham Co., Va Tax Records with son John in 1800 and lived another 25 years".

      As previously noted, this is a ludicrous statement just at face value, who can say which Thomas or John from a Tax List? Per census below, no elderly Thomas is found in Buckingham while Thomas of the 1818 pension of Lancaster died just a year later. Isn't this the Thomas who married Doggett???

      As already noted by others, there were several Thomas Carters of the Virginia Line; in any case, this proves a previously unknown Thomas of Lancaster born circa 1750:
      THOMAS CARTER - LANCASTER COUNTY - PRIVATE - VIRGINIA LINE
      $96.00 ANNUAL ALLOWANCE $172.38 AMOUNT RECEIVED
      JANUARY 29, 1818 PENSION STARTED - DIED NOVEMBER 17, 1819 [not 1825]

      "Thomas Carter born 19 Jun 1753 VA died 9 Feb 1825 married Elizabeth Dogget Private VA Pensioner. If you want the most recent long form application it costs $5 ? Include the information I listed above to identify which of the 10 Thomas Carters you want. You can also request a copy through a particular child of the Thomas'".

      "Thank you for the information concerning Thomas Carter Pvt VA PNSR , and your time, it is really appreciated. I have sent for the long form copy you mentioned ? Requested a copy through Thomas' son, John W. Carter 1778-1805".

      John's marriage was in 1805 - not his death. As expected/suspected from the above confusion, there is NO documentation at the DAR - the "very old man" back in 1910 made his own assumptions:
      1. With the birth in 1753 and no other marriage listings, he assumed the 1771 marriage - even though this would have been at the age of eighteen (which is possible, but not likely).
      2. With the only Thomas after 1820 in Hanover, he assumed the death was there in 1825.
      None of this negates or voids the marriage to Kilpatrick! We just can not accept a birth in Goochland, removal to the isolated Lancaster county, another (proven) removal to Buckingham/Nelson out west, and then another removal back up to Hanover!
      3. We have developed a reasonable case for a previously unknown Grandson of Henry and Letticia Pullen Carter below - which would fill in many blanks in Lancaster.

      Besides this individual, there was a Thomas Carter (Jr. and Sr.) in the 1820 Lancaster census - we asked the DAR lookup service about a son John of a Patriot Thomas Carter:
      "A search of our Patriot Index provided the information found below.
      CARTER, Thomas Birth: VA 19 Jun 1753 Service: VA Rank: Pvt Death: VA 9 Feb 1825
      Patriot Pensioned: Yes Widow Pensioned: No
      Children Pensioned: No Heirs Pensioned: No Spouse: (1) Elizabeth Dogget
      There is only ONE application (through a son JOHN) on this man -- very old -- possibly 1910-15. ? I will also tell you that the file does not indicate that documentation accompanied this application which is consistent with the time period in which it was filed". (Their emphasis)

      There is some confusion/debate over the date of birth of Elmore Doggett, son of George and Elizabeth Griggs Doggett, but her birth is given as 13 OCT 1749 in Lancaster, Virginia. This sure fits our scenerio for a Thomas born ca. 1750 - grandson of Henry and Letticia Pullen Carter - grandson of Capt. Thomas Carter Sr. of Barford! The only way this would work is with an early marriage of Elizabeth in the first place, and this is substantiated by the marriage and first child of said Elmore Doggett born 1765 Lancaster, as posted by the reliable Mary K. Leitner: Married: 30 MAR 1786 in Christ Church, Lancaster, Virginia, USA - Newton Doggett b: 2 FEB 1787 in Mason, Kentucky. The final touch to all this is that Mary shows the demise of George Doggett in 1769.

      Although there is doubt about the statements regarding Buckingham tax lists, as well as the birth and marriage in Lancaster, the combined work of the Damron and Willoughby on John W. Carter is otherwise impressive. If this Thomas is a son of Mary Kilpatrick, then he was born in Goochland - because of the registered births of Jesse and Abraham! Yet, there is no entry in the Douglas Register for Thomas, even though there are the entries for Jesse and Abraham - and even though there is room for another son! The 1753 date of birth sure makes sense - we have two urgent requests posted for the contents of the bible, or the related notes:

      "I do not see the other surnames in Henrico or Goochland Co although have
      received information that Thomas Carter did come from there and married
      Mary Kilpatrick and they moved to the western part of Va." [Not north to
      Lancaster, nor south to Mecklenberg].

      "A Family Bible of Thomas' son, John W. Carter, gives Thomas' parents as Thomas Carter and Mary Kilpatrick. Their [?the parents?] marriage is in the Douglas Register, page 14, indicating that the marriage was recorded on pages 21-26 of the Parish Register of Goochland begun ANNO 1756 by William Douglas, Minister". [Strangely, theirs is the only entry in the book with just the year of 1751 - there is no month or day].

      1820 US Census VA Buckingham, New Canton John Carter 26-45 two sons & one dau U10, fem 26-45
      appears to be a Joseph "Demcorn" next door - no Thomas in Buckingham, however,
      there is a Thomas Carter over 45 in the Hanover census (no way to make a connection), and
      there is a Thomas Carter (Sr.) over 45 in the Lancaster census(consistent with the 1818 Pension)
      1830 US Census VA Nelson (no listing in Buckingham - as suspected) **
      John Carter 50-60 Female 40-50 sons over 5, 10, 15 and 20, daughters over 10 and 20
      (Upshur from Lewis in 1851 - West Virginia split from Virginia in 1863)
      Not found in Ancestry in either 1840 or 1860
      1850 US Census VA Lewis, Dist 30 HH 1237 John Carter 72 Mary 62
      However, from Upshur Co website link:
      1860 US Census VA Upshur, Buckannon HH 842 John Carter 82 Mary 72

      22. John W. Carter was born on 17 Jun 1778. He died on 22 Nov 1861. He was
      married to Mary Smith Damron on 21 Oct 1805. [in today's Nelson Co VA]

      23. Mary Smith Damron was born on 25 Mar 1788. She died on 23 Jan 1868.
      John W. Carter and Mary Smith Damron had the following children: [in today's Nelson Co VA]
      ii.Henry Tapscott Carter was born on 18 Mar 1807.
      iii.Lucy Carter was born on 6 Jun 1809.
      iv.Thomas E. Carter was born on 28 Aug 1811.
      v.John W. Carter was born about 1812. [not to be confused with the later Rev. John W. Carter]
      11i.Elizabeth R. "Betsy" Carter. [2 Feb 1814.]
      vi.Page Dameron Carter was born on 11 Aug 1824.

      10. Alfred Willoughby was born on 21 Jan 1807. He died before 1850. Alfred
      left Nelson County, VA with his family and moved to Barbour County, WV in
      early 1840's. Then later in 1850's he came back to his original home in
      Nelson County, VA without his family. Alfred is said to have suffered a
      stroke and lived the last 17 years of his life as an invalid. He is buried
      in Johnson Cemetery, Dutch Creek, Elma, VA. He was married to Elizabeth
      R. "Betsy" Carter on 23 Dec 1831 in Nelson Co., VA. Marriage may have
      taken place December 26 & license may have been obtained December 23.
      Family Bible has marriage in October.

      11. Elizabeth R. "Betsy" Carter was born on 2 Feb 1814. Alfred Willoughby etc., etc., etc.

      DAR citations are by no means proof - what does the bible say, if anything, about Lancaster?
      What does the bible say about the mother and father of John W. Carter?

      "This will [of Lazarus Damaron] was proved 14 Feb. 1749. Bell lists witnesses as John Thomas, John Thomas Jr. - This will is abstracted in "Notes from the Family Bible of John W. Carter," by Gladys M. Bloyd, 513 7th Street, Moundsville, W. Virginia, referring to the "Carters, Tapscotts, Damerons and Emersons." It is an account of the descendants of John W. Carter 1778-1861, son of Thomas Carter of Lancaster County, Va., and of Mary Smith Dameron of Nelson County, Va., his wife".

      Early Confusion, Lapses and Oversights

      No one has yet noted and clearly separated the original THREE Thomas Carters of Goochland. Because of the lack of dates of birth, there was - and remains - much legitimate confusion over the Thomas Carters of Goochland. First of all, the Gen. Carter book on Josiah set all of us off on the wrong track when it came to the Thomas Carters; and then, the books on the Presidents added to the confusion with the several lines of Thomas Carters from Virginia down in the Carolinas and Georgia. Don't forget that descendants of Thomas of Mecklenburg are proven in Georgia and he is the proven first cousin of Thomas Jr. of Goochland!

      To wit: "About the time Josiah Carter transferred the Reedy Creek property to his brother Baynes, Josiah, along with a contingent of other Henry County, Virginia, families, migrated farther south to the state of Georgia".

      To wit: ""Thomas Carter in Goochland married Mary Kilpatrick dau of Alexander Kilpatrick & Easley woman(you can find two sons birth date in Douglas Reg in Goochland. Mary's bro died in (I can remember right now) S.C. I think and in his WILL he Names Thomas Carter in Goochland & son Alexander Carter (Mary's Husband & son. [John Kilpatrick d.s.p. bef. 1730 Goochland - 1760 Dobbs Co NC]"

      To Wit: "Alexander had a Will, but it appears to have been lost. The children of
      Alexander and Elizabeth were Easley, John, William and several daughters, one of
      whom may have been Elizabeth's daughter by her first marriage. John had a Will
      [in North Caroline] which provides us with a lot of information on this generation.
      He names his brothers and four brothers-in-law and one child for each. This compiler
      assumes the children named were the first born. It is not clear if the brothers-in-law,
      Henry Turner, Aaron Grizzard, Alexander Harper, and Thomas Carver,
      were his sisters husbands, his wife's brothers, or a combination. Mrs. Neuhauser
      thinks they were a combination, but this compiler thinks they were John's sister's
      husbands. (Goochland is NOT mentioned, simply Thomas Carter and son Alexander."
      "I do not see the other surnames in Henrico or Goochland Co although have
      received information that Thomas Carter did come from there and married
      Mary Kilpatrick and they moved to the western part of Va. The name
      Alexander does run down that line, but no proof was offered".

      [Our added emphasis - and where "western part of Virginia" would be consistent with Buckingham and Nelson counties, and neither north to Lancaster nor south to Mecklenberg; this gives weight to our conclusion the marriage to Doggett in Lancaster County is this side of utter nonsense].

      To wit: "Would anyone have a copy of the Will of Charles Carter (American Revolutionary Soldier). He was the son of Thomas Carter & Mary Kilpatrick of VA. He died in Oglethorpe County, Georgia". (Holly Carter Dunlop categorically dismisses Mary Kilpatrick as the mother of this Charles - she proves Charles to her Thomas of Mecklenburg, d. 1796).

      No, these are not directly the Thomas Carters of Goochland - but don't cousins and inlaws count?

      But then, which Thomas Carter married Kilpatrick?

      Was it then Thomas III who married Mary Kilpatrick in 1751 - OR - a Thomas Carter of Barford, Lancaster County, Virginia? It would certainly NOT make sense for Thomas III to marry in Goochland (on the James River), and then have a son marry back up in Lancaster (on the Rappahannock, where it meets the Bay - at the very southern tip of The Northern Neck). One can not help recall the perfect analogy in the ludicrous entry by Dawson that Giles Carter of King George eminated from the Giles of Henrico - in other words, Dr. Miller was not the only one to jump to erroneous conclusions! (The listings for a Thomas Carter III of Oglethorpe, Georgia are erroneous confusion for the son of Thomas of Mecklenburg - see Holly Carter notes below).

      Even Peyton Carter previously slipped a generation "The Thomas Carter who married May Kilpatrick was in fact Robert's [of Cartersville] brother" (a/k/a Thomas Jr.). We just don't know,

      but once again, the wills of 1726 and 1763 both name a son Thomas.

      On the other hand, wouldn't it make Common Sense (but by no means proof) for a proven marriage in 1751 with the birth of your first-born Thomas III in 1753? And then have a citation of an Elder in 1757? To date, we have no Thomas Carter of Lancaster County born circa 1753 unaccounted for. (Thomas Preston Carter of the Barford is well proven with a marriage to Susannah Gaines and removal to Culpepper County VA). Once again, we just don't know. Has Linda next, confused another pair of Thomas Carters?

      Posted by: Linda Fluharty Date: August 24, 1998 In Reply to: Thomas Carter.. Lancaster Co., VA by Linda Fluharty [sic - to herself] Linda lists this Thomas "of Lancaster" - to wit: Carter, Thomas m 21 Nov 1771 Elizabeth Doggett Sur William Griggs Lancaster Co Mar Bond

      "Have discovered Thomas in the DAR Patriot Index, b. 19 June 1753, d. 9 Feb 1825. Marriage Record in Early Virginia Marriages by Southern Book Co., 1953, lists marriage as 21 Nov 1771. A Family Bible of Thomas' son, John W. Carter, gives Thomas' parents as Thomas Carter and Mary Kilpatrick. Their [?the parents?]marriage is in the Douglas Register, page 14, indicating that the marriage was recorded on pages 21-26 of the Parish Register of Goochland begun ANNO 1756 by William Douglas, Minister. (Fay Parrish Wade of the Carter Society of Virginia has a transcription of this bible. Separately, Linda goes on to erroneously cite the will of Thomas of Mecklenburg for that of Thomas III instant).

      "Thomas Carter was born 19 June 1753 VA and he died 9 Feb 1825 VA. He married Elizabeth Doggett 21 Nov 1771. Looking for ancestors of both Thomas & Elizabeth. Thomas served in the Revolutionary War".

      DAR citations are by no means proof - what does the bible say, if anything, about Lancaster?

      Thos Carter, 1753-1825, m 1771 Lanc. Co Posted by: Virginia Date: April 19, 2000:
      "Thomas Carter, born 1753 in Lancaster Co., Va, married 1771 Lanc. Co, and died 1825 in Hanover Co., Va. * Wife , Elizabeth Griggs, widow of George Doggett, listed on DAR Patriot Index as wife of Thos Carter, Pvt Va. And is listed on the Lancaster Co., Va Marriage Rolls married to Thos Carter 1771. They had at least one son, John born 1778, and possibly a son Edward born prior to 1776. A daughter is indicated by family records as born in 1787. A wife of Thomas died in 1799 when he was in late 40's, so possibly he married again. He was in Buckingham Co., Va Tax Records with son John in 1800 and lived another 25 years".

      GEORGE DOGGETT, son of Elmore and Lucy (Haydon) Doggett; m. ELIZABETH GRIGGS, dau. Of William Griggs. Elizabeth m(2) 1771, Lancaster Co., VA (Marr. Bond, 21 Nov), Thomas Carter, son of Thomas Carter, b. 19 Jun 1753, d. 9 Feb 1825.

      Where in Blazes did the Griggs get these dates from?
      1776: William Griggs bought the home of Jesse Carter and wife Mary, located on Corotoman River. [Lancaster]
      1790: William Griggs was appointed guardian for Elizabeth Daggett.
      1796: William Griggs, guardian, gave permission & witness to marriage of Elizabeth Daggett to Thomas Carter.
      [Jesse and Mary Chattin Carter of Pittsylvania - son of Thomas III of Glouchester and Joanna Miller - son of Capt. Thomas Jr. of Barford]

      Carters of Oglethorpe not from Goochland

      Once again, forget everything you've seen on the Internet. Yes, we have had exquisite details on the wills and deaths, but not a word on the births. Therefore, we must use Senior, Junior and Thomas III in all future discussions. Separately, Holly Carter has posted contradictory information that Thomas of Mecklenburg (of Robert of Cartersville) is her ancestor, and he is not Thomas instant; and then, she is the only person to date to openly question which Thomas married Kilpatrick:

      This Thomas Carter is not "my" Thomas Carter of Mecklenburg County,
      Virginia but a lot people have confused this Thomas Carter with "my"
      Thomas Carter so I'm posting this database of the Kilpatrick family and
      this Thomas Carter in the hopes it will bring some clarification.

      I don't know if the Thomas Carter & Miss Kilpatrick (daughter of
      Alexander Kilpatrick) are the same couple as the Thomas Carter & Mary
      Killypatrick who married in Goochland County, Virginia in 1751 or not.
      More research needs to be done here.

      I expect they are two different couples as the Kilpatrick-Carter
      couple seem to have lived earlier than the Killypatrick-Carter couple.

      Finally, with the date of marriage of Thomas III to Mary Kilpatrick in 1751 - and presuming Thomas III is the son of Junior - we again need to move the dates of birth back for the children of Thomas II from the thirties to the late twenties (yet allow for the birth of Baynes in 1745)! These are still Best Guesses, but doesn't this fill in the generation gap previously encountered? The entry in the Douglas Register by itself does not prove which Thomas married Mary Kilpatrick; however, if we add Dan's work on the Mary Carroll marriage below, then we have a solid "body of circumstantial evidence". But not yet overwhelming.

      The point taken from Holly Carter Dunlop above is that none of us has a firm handle on the dating of these Carters of Goochland.

      For example, in a prior message from Dan Wallace: "Thomas Carter Jr.'s [that's Junior] Last Will and Testament was written 14 February 1760 and was recorded in Goochland County on 19 April 1763. If his sons were named in chronological order, his oldest would have been Thomas [III], then John, then Josiah, then Baynes. In his Will, Thomas Carter refers to his ?Youngest sons, that is to say John Carter, Josiar [sic] Carter, and Baynes Carter.? He also refers to his wife Mary Carter. Mary may have been Mary Kilpatrick based on the 1751 marriage recorded in the Douglas Register for Thomas Carter to Mary Kilpatrick".

      Even Dan Wallace originally skipped a generation! If we look at the Big Picture, however, a marriage in 1751 HAS to be Thomas III. Once again with emphasis, it's Senior, Junior and Thomas the Third.

      In any event and whatever his ancestry, we collectively need to pursue the life and times of the Thomas Carter who married Mary Kilpatrick. Sad to say, with the singular exception of the family bible citation above, and the current work of Dan Wallace next, forget anything you've found on either RootsWeb or the Carter GenForum.

      Carter wives of Goochland Posted by: Dan Wallace January 21, 2009

      [Presents a solid body of circumstantial evidence to suggest it was Thomas Jr. who PROBABLY married Mary Carroll - and eliminates both his father and the third Thomas (whether or not Thomas III is the son of Junior].

      While I have seen considerable discussion of Thomas Carter of Goochland [Senior] and his sons I have seen very little on their wives. I know its much more difficult to identify the females of that era but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Perhaps I can spark a discussion with the following.

      Penele Carrell

      It is clear that in 1726 when Thomas of Goochland Carter [Senior] wrote his will he had a wife named Penele because she was so named in the will. I do not know who first gave her a surname of Carrell (or Carroll) but I am reasonably sure that this was based on the will of a Roger Carrell which was proved and recorded in Henrico County on 4 Mar 1727/8. The Carrell will was witnessed by Thomas Carter who signed his full name. In the will Carrell names his wife Elizabeth and names "my son" Thomas Carter as one of the executors, clearly indicating a son-in-law.
      I am unaware of any evidence that indicates Roger Carrell had a daughter named Penele. There are however indications that he had a daughter Mary who married a Carter. In the Vestry Book for St. James Northam Parish in Goochland County the following entries pertain to payments made by the parish in support of the poor and infirm:

      25 Sep 1760 To Eliza Carrel for her support
      16 Dec 1764 To Roger Carrel for support of his mother.
      23 Dec 1767 To Mary Carter for the support of Mrs. Carrel
      31 Dec 1770 To Mary Carter for Mrs. Carrell 5 mo.s
      31 Dec 1770 To Roger Carrel for Mrs. Carrell 7 mo.s
      20 Dec 1774 To Roger Carrell for keeping Eliza Carrell

      I believe that the Elizabeth Carrel (Carrell) who is being supported is the widow of Roger Carrell and that the Mary Carter mentioned in 1767 must be the widow of Thomas Carter, Junior who died in 1763. In all likelihood Thomas Junior's wife Mary Carter left Goochland on or before 20 Dec 1773 when she and her son Baynes sold the Fleming Park Creek homestead that Thomas Carter, Junior devised to his son Baynes and in which Mary Carter would have had dower rights. On the Goochland deed [DB 10/446] Mary Carter made her mark, an upper case "C", which is consistent with a maiden name that begins with the letter "C". I know of no instance where a female of the period used an initial from her married name as her mark. [A strange mark to be sure, but this is quite weak logic].

      William the son of Roger Carrell left a will, recorded as William Carrol, in Goochland [DB 2/31] dated 4 Sep 1734, proved 19 Nov 1734. This will was witnessed by William Sanders, Thomas (+) Carter, George Williamson and Julius Sanders. The fact that Thomas Carter signed with a mark rather than a signature implies that this is Thomas Carter, Junior (a brother-in-law?) rather than Thomas Carter of Goochland who signed documents with a full signature. It is an interesting fact that while Thomas of Goochland Carter was literate, apparently none of his sons were able to write their names as all known documents they executed included their marks rather than signatures. This is not surprising in view of the literacy pattern in colonial Virginia but it may tell us something of where and under what circumstances the sons spent their formative years.

      On 1 May 1706 a patent for 570 acres of land in Henrico County was granted to Richard Cock, Junior. Two of the head rights mentioned in this patent were Roger Carrell and Hanna Carrell. Later in 1714, Richard Cocke, Junior was granted a patent in Henrico County on Beaverdam Creek adjacent to the lands of Joseph Pleasants. This later property would eventually share a common border with land Thomas Carter would receive from the Woodson's Licking Hole Survey. I believe that Roger Carrell lived on this second plantation as an overseer perhaps, raised his family there and died there. I do not know how Roger Carrell came to possess the 800 acres near Buck Island that he devised to his sons in his will but I do not think he ever lived there.

      Given these facts I believe that Mary, the wife of Thomas Carter, Junior of Fleming Park Creek, was Mary Carrell, daughter of Roger Carrell and that "my son" Thomas Carter from the Roger Carrell will is Thomas Carter, Junior NOT Thomas Carter of Goochland [Senior].

      Next we'll analyze what we know of Susannah Baynes.

      [We all agree on Baynes, but no clue to date why she was Susannah. This of course is missing one whole generation of the Goochland]:

      3. THOMAS (JR. OF GOOCHLAND)3 CARTER (THOMAS (OF GOOCHLAND)2, WILLIAM1) died 1763 in Goochland County, Virginia. He married MARY (?? KILPATRICK ?? KILLYPATRICK ?? CARTER. Notes for THOMAS (JR. OF GOOCHLAND) CARTER:

      Will of Thomas Carter Written Feb. 14, 1760 Probated April 19, 1763 - Goochland County, Virginia

      i. THOMAS (OF TURKEY COCKE CREEK)4 CARTER, b. Virginia. ?.. Moved to Georgia ??? use 1734
      ii. JOHN (OF BALLOWS LINE) CARTER, b. Virginia. ??.. Ditto ??? use 1736
      iii. BAYNES CARTER, b. Virginia; d. Virginia??? use 1738
      ??.. "Baynes Carter stayed in VA. His SON Baynes went to GA." -- Rebecca Dyer, February 24, 2006
      iv. SUSANNA SUSANNAH (OF TURKEY COCKE CREEK) CARTER, b. [ca. 1740] Virginia; [d. bef. 1771]
      ??.. M. JOSEPH (JR.) JACKSON, 27 Aug 1760.
      ??.. From : Rebecca Dyer Sent : Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:25 AM
      ??.. Thos Carter Jr's LWT was written 14 Feb 1760 and was recorded in Goochland Co 19 Apr 1763.
      ??.. At the time the LWT was written Susannah was named to inherit 150a of her father's Turkey Cock
      ??.. Creek property; however, on 23 Oct 1761, Thos Carter sold this property to Joseph Jackson of
      ??.. Cumberland Co VA [DB3/208].
      V. MARY DAWSON CARTER, b. Virginia???.. Use 1741
      vi. JUDITH CARTER, b. Virginia????????.. Use 1743
      vii. JOSIAH CARTER, b. 1745, Virginia; d. 1822. ??? moved to GA
      ??.. "Josiah Carter, 1745-1822: His forebears, descendants, and allied families"
      ??.. Randolph A. Malone - McNaughton & Gunn, Inc. Ann Arbor, Michigan, 1989

      wife of Thomas of Goochland - of whatever Carter Clan - Holly continues :

      "According to Peyton Carter, Thomas Carter was married three times.
      1 - "unknown"
      2 - Penele Carrol (Also listed as Carrell and Carroll.)[appears to be false *]
      3 - Susanna Baynes
      I do not know his source for this information. I do not know which wife was the mother of his children. Penele is the wife listed in his Will, but the Will was written many years before he died".

      Remember, other than the exquisite dates of deeds dug up by Dan, no one yet has firm dates for these Carters of Goochland (other than the wills / deaths); we are all still reconstructing a time line:

    2. [S67727] Mary Frances Reynolds Eggleston.
      The information concerning these Carter lines are taken from working documents at Daniels Family Tree and other researchers. The content changes frequently as new information emerges. All speculation should be investigated for accuracy and used with the utmost of caution. - Mary Frances Eggleston